| Author |  Topic  |
Tristared
V4 Fan
United Kingdom
186 Posts |  Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 09:43:49  
| Thanks to very little resistance on ebay last night, I have managed to secure a 1980 12a Mazda engine, plus all ancillaries for a very reasonable £127. Next on the shopping list will be a gearbox so I can test fit all the parts outside the car.
As far as I can see I have a few major hurdles, namely.
1) Getting an adapted plate made.
2) Engine mount fabrication.
3) Clutch hydraulics
4) Connecting up the rotary to the existing radiator
5) Converting the throttle to a cable set up
6) Connecting up the cabin heater.
7) ...most worrying of all - connecting the exhaust.
Wonderful, I look forward to driving it sometime in the next decade.
Any advice, knowledge or cheers of support most welcome.
Oh, and if this goes smoothly I will be looking to sell my 1700 engine to finance some much need bodywork (I'm much happier with spanners), so I look forward to getting some cash for that.
Photo's will follow.
Ed |
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UK_Sub
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2558 Posts | Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 12:18:36
| Sounds quite exciting Ed!
How come you're not just tuning the 1700? Should go like stink with that in there!
Simon |  |
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pchristy
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
1790 Posts | Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 13:00:07
| Wow! That was a good buy!
I've been keeping an intermittent eye open for one for a while, and never even seen one advertised! I blinked and missed it!
Well done!
There's plenty of places around that will fabricate exhaust systems or just manifolds. Some years ago I had a stainless steel one built from scratch for less than Ford wanted for a tin one! (Mind you, it was an Australian Ford!)
The trickiest bit will be fabricating the adapter plate, I would imagine. The rest should be relatively stright forward. You should be able to keep the clutch hydraulics, but will probably need a custom push-rod to go in the end.
Not a simple project, but one I've been thinking about for a while. The only thing that has stopped me has been a lack of money!!!
I look forward to following your progress!
--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!" |
Edited by - pchristy on 13 Jul 2010 13:01:02 | |
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Tristared
V4 Fan
United Kingdom
186 Posts | |
pchristy
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
1790 Posts | Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 15:55:02
| Ah! I was searching under "Mazda"! No wonder I didn't see it!
The people who made the exhaust for my Ford LTD were Cheeseman products. It looks like they are still around: http://www.cheesmanproducts.co.uk/
They certainly did a cracking job on my big Ford (it was a 5.8 litre V8!) and for the same price that Ford wanted for a standard one!!!
Whilst I was there I was astonished to see 2 or 3 Healey sports cars (Note: not Austin or Jensen Healeys - the original 1940s ones!). Apparently a club member had got them to make one for his car, and he was so pleased with the results that nearly all the owners of the other surviving cars took them there to be fixed! A fine recommendation indeed!
There also used to be someone who advertised as "Mike the Pipe" (!), but I don't know if he's still around.
Please keep us posted with your progress!
--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!" | |
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Tristared
V4 Fan
United Kingdom
186 Posts | Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 16:44:31
| Thanks Pete - they'll be getting a call from me - quite when however, I'm not so sure.
Simon,
I'm going to get shot down for writing this, but what the hell.
I'm not that much of a fan of the V4, I love the Saab 96 but I've just always thought that the engine is not refined enough for such a cracking car. The V4 seems to have a propensity to want to share it's oil with everything it's parked on, it's just about smooth enough for agricultural machinery, it's too heavy, and costs a lot to tune (assuming you can even find the parts). I had enquiry into buying the 1700 out of mine 10mins after stating that it would be for sale - says a lot about the availability of the go-faster bits.
That said, I love the micro V8 looks, I like the fact that the electrics are so high on the block you can practically ford rivers, and it makes one of the best noises this side of a Triumph Stag.
In short I'm doing the conversion because rotaries have a certain appeal, they're suitably unusual - and I've never played with one. After driving a RX-8 (yes I know there's a bit of difference) I love the jet engine like smoothness. I like the fact that NSU Ro80's had their rotaries taken out and replaced with V4's and I'm doing the reverse. I want to know what a difference a lighter engine will make to already superbly handling car, and most importantly of all - I can (try).
But what do I know? I'm going to be running an engine that can just about do V8 mpg in a age where petrol is nearly expensive as scotch.
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pchristy
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
1790 Posts | Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 18:14:26
| quote:
Originally posted by Tristared
But what do I know? I'm going to be running an engine that can just about do V8 mpg in a age where petrol is nearly expensive as scotch.
That's what the free-wheel is for!!!
--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!" | |
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Tristared
V4 Fan
United Kingdom
186 Posts | Posted - 15 Jul 2010 : 12:03:14
| Ok engines back, having spoken with the seller about the worrying mass of pipe work that surrounds the unit, he explained that the rotary has an oil pump and injectors that squirts oil onto the tips and sides of the triangular pistons for lubrication, he went on to say that what some people do is remove all of this stuff and pre mix the fuel with two stroke oil.
Looks like I may one day have to do the petrol station fore court bounce the stroker owners used to do to get an even mix.
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pchristy
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
1790 Posts | Posted - 15 Jul 2010 : 15:28:22
| I do know someone who is meant to be a real expert on rotary engines. I know he's been used as a consultant in court cases about them. I'll see if he's interested in offering any advice, but it may take a while to get in touch with him....
--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!" | |
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Tristared
V4 Fan
United Kingdom
186 Posts | Posted - 15 Jul 2010 : 16:01:17
| Please - any info on the Mazda 12a would be a bonus...
I've got some 'mating' questions for those in the know....
i) What is the diameter of the first motion shaft or spigot (whatever you want to call it)?
ii) The distance from the end of the first motion shaft or spigot to the front edge of the bell housing?
I should point out I have every intention of technology sharing when I've finished - please don't think I'm plundering the communal wealth of knowledge without the intention of returning anything back. | |
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rsimps
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
1616 Posts | Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 07:53:59
| | The rotary is closer to a two stroke in design. It will be an interesting project. Wasn't the Ro80 fwd? Could that provide a gearbox? | |
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IAN
Starting Member
Spain
36 Posts | Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 14:24:54
| | Yes the Ro80 was fwd, BUT it was fitted with a semi automatic gearbox (clutch operated as soon as you touched the g/lever knob. I've also a horrible suspicion? it was only a 3 speed. I drove one prior to it's launch and the grey cells aren't as good at remembering now ! Ian | |
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IAN
Starting Member
Spain
36 Posts | Posted - 25 Jul 2010 : 14:29:07
| | Further to my previous message, Audi's of the period just after the Ro80 were in line engine with fwd. If you want crazy how about an Audi quattro gearbox ! Ian | |
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Tristared
V4 Fan
United Kingdom
186 Posts | Posted - 08 Nov 2010 : 14:03:40
| Not much to add as yet...
Did a bit of sizing up so I could get the dimensions for the adapter plate (a 400x400x25mm plate of aluminium if you're interested).
Here's some pics - to give an overall idea of what the power train will look like.
Incidentally the first motion shaft has the same dimension as the bearing inside the flywheel - very handy.
Slight problem being the Mazda 12a engine's starter motor points forward, so that will have to be mounted on the adapter plate just above the clutch slave cylinder.
Also thinking about investing in one of these...
http://www.rotaryshack.com/images/big/intake03.jpg
Just as well I've bought a spare gearbox, I doubt it will be the last. | |
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pchristy
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
1790 Posts | Posted - 08 Nov 2010 : 15:01:54
| Fantastic to see the progress! I had wondered how you were getting on!
Keep up the good work!
--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!" | |
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pchristy
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
1790 Posts | Posted - 20 Nov 2010 : 19:45:22
| Ed,
Finally managed to catch up with my ****el rotary expert friend today. This guy was apprenticed to Felix ****el, and although his speciality is NSU engines rather than Mazdas, there isn't much about them he doesn't know!
Drop me an e-mail at c h r i s t y [at] a t t g l o b a l [dot] n e t (suitably amended!) and I'll pass you his contact details! He's fascinated by your project!
--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!" | |
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| Topic | |
Mazda Engine Conversion
