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 Further work on the '71 96.
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Jimmys old Saab
V4 Beginner

United Kingdom
55 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2017 :  01:29:16 Show Profile Reply with Quote
The 96 was running and was near able to be MOT'ED. Now it's not; I've dismantled the front of the car down to the bare block remaining. All the ancillaries will be reinstalled and replaced where needed, there is a fair bit of paint required around the 'bay but remarkably little rust; only a small area of front valance to weld at either side. The old bird must have been garaged, her nether regions are as good as one a fraction of her age.
But, I'm planning on some modifications. I have a grave dislike of the battery tray, I'd like to cut it out and move the battery rearwards- pros/cons?
I'm considering what colour to paint the engine block and struts, radiator mounts, alternator mounting. Black seems a bit meh...
Is there anything else I ought to do while I have the opportunity? Steering seemed fine, inner drive shaft gaiters look good.

Jimmy

Jimmys old Saab
V4 Beginner

United Kingdom
55 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2017 :  01:52:49 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Yes! Radiator; is it worth an upgrade? I read that the 96 can run hot. Seemed odd to me that there was no radiator shroud neither, it would make the very small fan work more efficiently, is an electric fan worthwhile? Would need to be very slimline. Pity as I have a period Fiat one but it's quite deep.
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pchristy
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1783 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2017 :  09:26:42 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Radiator: I never had a problem with my original '69 V4 running hot, back in the late 60s / early 70s, but my current car (71) could get hot when stuck in traffic on a hot summer's day. I got a spare radiator and had it rebuilt by a firm in Feltham, west London. They rebuilt it with an extra core and used high-efficiency cores as well. Its never shown any sign of overheating since, even when run without any fan at all for a while, when the fan bearing went noisy.

These engines were originally designed to run on much higher octane fuel than the current unleaded, and having to work harder to compensate might account for the tendency to overheat, I guess. However, it only happened to me under extreme circumstances. Before spending loads of money, I'd suggest replacing the thermostat, making sure the rubber sealing ring is in place, give the whole cooling system a thorough flushing (radflush?) and make sure you have some good quality anti-freeze in there. Anti-freeze isn't just to prevent freezing, by the way. It does improve cooling efficiency as well.

I've never had a problem with the battery tray. What is your issue with it?

My '69 car had a blue engine. the 71 car has a black one, but it is a Vege rebuild. I think Ford colour-coded the engines to indicate which version they were. IIRC, the original "open-deck" engines were silver.


--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!"
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Fliptop
V4 Fan

United Kingdom
154 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2017 :  14:27:32 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Very early open deck blocks were red, then silver. Closed deck blocks blue then black. Engine mounts, rad brackets etc were always black IIRC.

Rads are increasingly an issue, as Peter says unleaded fuel doesn't help. A modern core with the extra row is a good bet. Another factor in over-heating that even a very seasoned V4 guru I know fell foul of recently (after trying all manner of other things) is to fit new pressure caps to the rad AND the expansion tank. And make sure you use an 82 or 83 degree stat, not 88.

Am also not sure what the issue is with battery position, but if you feel the need to do something radical then put a lightweight gel battery under the back seat (or maybe in the boot) and lose that big lump of lead up-front.

Running and bodging Saabs since the dark ages...
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Zagato
V4 Mad

United Kingdom
809 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2017 :  18:05:42 Show Profile Reply with Quote
How about rally style, no idea where it goes though!





Edited by - Zagato on 04 Jan 2017 18:06:40
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Woody
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2456 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2017 :  19:13:22 Show Profile Reply with Quote
It fits in the boot centred behind the fuel tank. The spare wheel would be leant over it against the u section above the tank. This is as fitted to LUK 3K The Birmingham Post white works built RHD V4 campaigned by John Bloxham of Warstones Garage Wolverhampton in 1972/3. Spent a few hours going over it but never got any photos as I forgot my camera.
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Jimmys old Saab
V4 Beginner

United Kingdom
55 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2017 :  22:01:56 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Looks like all the struts, braces and rocker covers will be black then :)
The thermostat I pulled is an 88 and I've reason to believe it was in there a long long time.
Why would replacing the rad and overflow caps be an issue? So long as they are the correct rating?
I just find that battery trays get in the way so often, I've cut it out now, may bolt it back in so as it can quickly be removed for maintenance access. Having the battery in the boot I like, just a bit concerned about voltage drop through all that cable...
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Jimmys old Saab
V4 Beginner

United Kingdom
55 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2017 :  22:06:03 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I've seen pics of John Bloxham 96 in action- would make a nice project to reproduce that.
re- radiator flush; yes, it can make a big difference to efficiency and overhearing problems, long engine blocks and certain configurations of heater matrix can get very bunged up and on a straight 6 the rearmost cylinder can be a long way from the rad!
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Zagato
V4 Mad

United Kingdom
809 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2017 :  08:22:43 Show Profile Reply with Quote
JOS, you could always put in a rally style rad!



My favourite all time SAAB picture... Drool. Or buy the Per Eklund replica for 45k which still has not sold... Advertised on carandclassic at the moment... Serious drool!

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C729907

Interesting the position of that battery Woody in the top picture, doesn,t look very secure either, this is from the SAAB Museum so not sure if it is a replica... Odd!



96L
9000 Aero
9-3
9-5

Edited by - Zagato on 05 Jan 2017 08:50:59
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pchristy
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1783 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2017 :  09:32:17 Show Profile Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmys old Saab

Why would replacing the rad and overflow caps be an issue? So long as they are the correct rating?



I think the issue is that only the expansion bottle should have a pressure cap. The radiator should have a "solid" cap. Otherwise water may escape from the radiator without going into the expansion bottle, leaving the car short of water when it all cools down.....

--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!"
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GeoffC
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
432 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2017 :  10:16:29 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I put a sealed light weight battery into the boot on PUP as shown -
(somebody's pinched the battery!!)



This gave me easy access to the suspension arms for adjusting the camber, changing bushes etc and gave me room to fit an extra washer tank and pump so I had one pump for each double jet which used to clean the screen a treat in the forests.



Sorry it's not as clean and pristine as your example Chris!! These pics were taken after it's retirement and 10 years plus resting in my garage. Just hope whoever has PUP now is giving it the TLC it deserves which now the kids have grown up would have been my ideal project!
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Zagato
V4 Mad

United Kingdom
809 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2017 :  10:33:25 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Lol, well yours was actually rallied Geoff, I wonder if the SAAB museum one has seen mud! Real shame PUP didn,t go your way and it's a real shame we are not closer, there is nobody around here that knows about 96's.

I presume having the expansion tank on the wing makes it cooler than standard simply as it holds a bit more water. I wonder if a recored rad and rally style expansion tank would be enough for a road car. I have to do something with mine, although I put on a Kenlowe fan on my old Souvenir which worked very well, just fitted behind the front grill.

Some folks also make the main bar in between the inner wings detachable to make life easier.



Edited by - Zagato on 05 Jan 2017 10:36:46
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GeoffC
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
432 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2017 :  10:49:58 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Woody probably knows the real reason for the wing mounted expansion tank but the oil cooler takes up the position of the std expansion tank on the rally cars, so that might be the main reason rather than extra water capacity. (NB the cooler isn't fitted in the pic I posted). The main thing would be to have a clean flowing radiator, I never had an overheating issue with my original black 96 with a std set up.
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Jimmys old Saab
V4 Beginner

United Kingdom
55 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2017 :  20:13:19 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Interesting photos, thanks :)
Geoff, I see you have both +ve and -ve cables running back towards the engine bay and they use different routes.
I guess an earth is required from both the engine block and the bodywork then?
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GeoffC
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
432 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2017 :  00:06:37 Show Profile Reply with Quote
quote:
Geoff, I see you have both +ve and -ve cables running back towards the engine bay and they use different routes.
I guess an earth is required from both the engine block and the bodywork then?


No - just the positive lead run from the starter motor through the bulkhead and along the inside of the left hand side door sill, up the rear arch and through the boot as shown. The negative lead was bolted to the body cross member above the petrol tank if you zoom in on the image you can just make out the bolt. The engine was earthed with the std braid to the body as normal. There was a safety cut off switch in the positive lead as required for rallying. The yellow tape on the negative lead was hastily applied when I was nearly thrown out of scrutineering for having the wrong coloured lead - I never did fit a yellow one!
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Woody
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2456 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2017 :  10:48:26 Show Profile Reply with Quote
The consensus is that the high header tank with large hoses enables any air bubbles to seek higher ground and not get caught in the manifolds/block causing over-heating problems.

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