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 Gears pop out while driving
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x96
V4 Fanatic

France
288 Posts

Posted - 02 Jul 2018 :  20:40:23 Show Profile Visit x96's Homepage Reply with Quote
I don't know if it is a problem inside the gearbox, I hope not, but it sounds good, in fact there are no strange noises but the gears pop out, while accelerating or braking, first, second, and maybe third. I couldn't drive enough to be sure.

Melle advised me to make an adjustment but I don't understand correctly the process.
Following the picture from Melle's web page..



After unbolt A and B and slide the steering column up and down, engage top gear.
Then, do I have to slide C up and down and D must move in the same direction those 8-12mm?

Thanks.

Hctor

OWEN
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
288 Posts

Posted - 03 Jul 2018 :  10:33:40 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Melle's instructions are exact. I've done this and the easiest way I've found is trial and error. Loosen the bolts, pull or push the steering colum shroud towards you or away from you and then try changing gear and driving. Sometimes it works fine cold and then doesn't work when everything's hot. If this doesn't work, the adjustment at the other end of the gearchange mechanism is adjustment of the lateral position of the gearbox relative to the chassis. You can do this by loosening the engine side stabiliser and adjusting the length of the gearbox side stabiliser. Again, I tend to use trial and error; moving it to the right or the left and seeing what happens.
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x96
V4 Fanatic

France
288 Posts

Posted - 03 Jul 2018 :  19:30:31 Show Profile Visit x96's Homepage Reply with Quote
Ok, thanks Owen, I don't have any doubt that the information from Melle was correct, the only thing is that I didn't understand the process. I'll do as you suggest, trial and error moving the steering column.

Hctor

Edited by - x96 on 03 Jul 2018 19:50:15
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2851 Posts

Posted - 03 Jul 2018 :  20:10:25 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
The arrows you added in your adaptation of my adaptation of the workshop manual are correct. To be honest though, most steering columns are worn to a point that moving "D" (which is the one to move) to check adjustment doesn't make much sense. There is no need to touch "C". As Owen suggests, trial and error is the best method. Good call re adjusting the engine side stabiliser if steering column adjustment doesn't help; the LHD 96 doesn't have the gearbox steady, so no need to worry about that.

www.saabv4.com
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x96
V4 Fanatic

France
288 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2018 :  18:39:39 Show Profile Visit x96's Homepage Reply with Quote
That's s good point, I don't know how much is worn. I'll see it in a couple of weeks.
The engine side stabiliser is the rod that conects the engine with the inner left wing?

Do you think that the key lock can be related to the pop out problem?
The truck driver who transported the car removed the key without engage the reverse gear. I don't know how he was capable of that.

Thankfully I could insert the key and after a bit of wiggling everything started to work, engage, disengage, lock, unlock, but I'm afraid the key lock is a bit damage or with more play than before.

This type of lock is always a problem on every saab.



Hctor
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x96
V4 Fanatic

France
288 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2018 :  18:32:48 Show Profile Visit x96's Homepage Reply with Quote

This weekend I worked a bit on the car and I understood how it is made the gear linkage, the steering column remains fixed and the support of the gear and key barrel moves up and down.

I have slided from top up to top down with the fourth gear engaged and it moves with the block but in any case I cannot engage any gear with the engine running. It screams as it is like I dont have clutch. Without make any kilometer I have passed from pop out gears to non be able to engage any, strange isnt it ?

I was alone and I couldnt check how much the slave cylinder moves the bearing arm that pushes the clutch but if I press the clutch completely, I hear an squeak noise very strong{like in the past] that I suppose is the bearing arm touching the pressure group. It means it moves enough for engaging gears.

In the past it was enough to press half pedal to engage any gear easily, I dont know what happened, I havent done kilometers to change things that way.

Do you know what it can be this time? something related with the freewheel maybe ?



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Hctor
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2851 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2018 :  21:13:35 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
When do you hear the noise, when just depressing the pedal, or when trying to engage a gear? Your analysis may well be correct if the noise occurs when you only press the pedal. If the latter, you probably have a hydraulics issue, perhaps the master leaking internally. If you put the car in first gear, keep your foot on the clutch and let go of all brakes, does the car move forward? (It shouldn't!)

www.saabv4.com
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Mos6502
V4 Fan

USA
133 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2018 :  04:58:00 Show Profile Reply with Quote
If this is a LHD car, pull back the dust boot over the clutch-arm linkage, open the driver's side door, and step on the clutch pedal while standing outside of the car - you can see the linkage from this position. You'll be able to see it move if it is working. Also check for play between the arm and rod from the slave cylinder, if you can push the arm forward more than a few millimeters you'll have to adjust the play out of it.
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x96
V4 Fanatic

France
288 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2018 :  16:29:41 Show Profile Visit x96's Homepage Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by melle
When do you hear the noise, when just depressing the pedal, or when trying to engage a gear? Your analysis may well be correct if the noise occurs when you only press the pedal. If the latter, you probably have a hydraulics issue, perhaps the master leaking internally. If you put the car in first gear, keep your foot on the clutch and let go of all brakes, does the car move forward? (It shouldn't!)

www.saabv4.com



Yes Melle, that's it. First gear engaged, clutch full pressed and the car moves forward like there's no clutch at all.

The strong squeak noise happen when I press completely the clutch and makes it since I have got the car, to avoid this I put a 5mm piece of wood under the carpet to avoid the pedal goes too further. I adjusted the screw beside the slave cylinder but I'm not sure if I can unscrew it more. I don't want that something falls inside the gearbox.

So, I go for a hydarulic problem, master or slave cylinder and forget something related with freewheel.

In any case I will try to change both grommets on both cylinders to be sure it doesn't break on the road next time.

Any tutorial or advice to change the grommet kit?
thanks

Hctor
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x96
V4 Fanatic

France
288 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2018 :  16:39:29 Show Profile Visit x96's Homepage Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mos6502
If this is a LHD car, pull back the dust boot over the clutch-arm linkage, open the driver's side door, and step on the clutch pedal while standing outside of the car - you can see the linkage from this position. You'll be able to see it move if it is working. Also check for play between the arm and rod from the slave cylinder, if you can push the arm forward more than a few millimeters you'll have to adjust the play out of it.



I didn't check it at that moment, now I have to wait until I come back. I will go with a kit for repair the cylinders.

But what I don't understand is that if I press at full the pedal a strong noise comes out probably because the bearing arm touches the spring plate cluch, meaning that the pedal and cylinders make its job. But the clutch does not dissengage.

thanks

Hctor
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2851 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2018 :  16:53:00 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by x96
Yes Melle, that's it. First gear engaged, clutch full pressed and the car moves forward like there's no clutch at all.
That's the slave due an overhaul then. If you take both cylinders out and leave the hose connected, you can do it on the bench. Overhaul is literally take apart and put back in reverse order. Unless the bore is damaged of course. John Saab sells seal kits.

quote:
Originally posted by x96
The strong squeak noise happen when I press completely the clutch and makes it since I have got the car, to avoid this I put a 5mm piece of wood under the carpet to avoid the pedal goes too further.
I've used my 96 like that for a few years before solving the problem. Engine and box out job unfortunately, but not very complicated if you can weld (or know someone else who can!). The floor interferes with the rod that keeps the arm in place, so I've cut a hole under the gearbox in all V4s I've had so far. Saab should have done that originally so if needed the arm can be overhauled with the box in situ.

www.saabv4.com
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x96
V4 Fanatic

France
288 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2018 :  19:12:34 Show Profile Visit x96's Homepage Reply with Quote
I see Melle, but how can be explained that I have both problems at the same time?, if the slave is gone and I don't have clutch how is possible that the bearing arm touches the spring plate cluch when pedal is full pressed?

Hctor
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2851 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2018 :  20:34:22 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
Chance? You will probably still have enough pressure in the system to move the arm, this doesn't require much force, but not enough for it to counter the strong pressure plate springs.

www.saabv4.com
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x96
V4 Fanatic

France
288 Posts

Posted - 26 Aug 2019 :  13:59:39 Show Profile Visit x96's Homepage Reply with Quote
Clutch problem solved. the hydraulics are in good shape.
What happen was that the clutch disk was a bit glued to the flywheel because the car has been stopped for several months in a slightly humid garage.
It was enough to follow the advice on Jack Ashcraft's book about maintenance the gearbox.
Procedure:
Car is stopped but after warming up the engine.
Stop the engine and engage second gear, release cluth and turn ignition key to start the engine. Suddenly, after a bang, the clutch released the flywheel and the gears engage again easily.

I also adjusted the gears to find the good balance between easy engage and not to pop out the gear. Difficult point. I will have to try more times and change the position of the rod.


Hctor
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