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 Where have all the rally cars gone?
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GeoffC
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
420 Posts

Posted - 26 Aug 2018 :  00:04:44 Show Profile Reply with Quote
After a great turn out on last year's Roger Albert Clark rally I was hoping to see more of the cars out and about on other events. Not heard or seen any since, so have any of you been rallying or are you all broke after the RAC? - I know it's a costly event!

None going up the hill at the SOC event either which was a shame. Mind you I can't talk my Sonett didn't make it either - the missing master cylinder was my excuse

RodHunt
Starting Member

10 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2018 :  10:20:29 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Haven't posted here very often or recently, I used to rally a V4 with no great success years ago. Like GeoffC I've been wondering where all the rallying Saabs have gone. I've been watching these threads and no one has posted on rallying for a long while.

With the Rally2WD initiative I was expecting to see some Saabs out on the stages once more but nothing seems to have happened apart from a couple of 2 Strokes. I get the impression that all the best historic rally cars are being hidden away these days. Why? Too expensive? Too worried about damage? Little point against the hordes of Escorts?

Maybe one day soon I'll be able to get a rally car out on the stages again!
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GeoffC
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
420 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2018 :  13:25:55 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Hope you get a chance again soon - be good to see one out. OK you might not be in for an overall win (unless it snows of course!) but a class award with a high reving 1500cc is still possible in my opinion. Stick to a single down draught weber (less complex and no danger of snapping cross over manifolds in a roll!) decent camshaft, big valve heads and a nicely balanced bottom end with steel gears enabling 7000 plus rpm. Organisers will welcome your entry as they too get fed up with the endless procession of Escorts.





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RodHunt
Starting Member

10 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2018 :  10:55:09 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Too old and too broke probably to get out rallying again! Agree with you though, keep it simple! Everyone wants to win these days, in my day taking part and doing as well as you could was the thing. Can't understand why someone should spend thousands to finish 25th. and 25th. in class when they could spend a little less to finish 28th. and 1st. in class...
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joethescoot
Starting Member

United Kingdom
17 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2018 :  11:22:48 Show Profile Send joethescoot an AOL message Reply with Quote
Geoff,I知 boiling an engine for fast road possibly some rallying . What about the gearbox.is a standard box ok or will it need upgrading.
Many thanks
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GeoffC
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
420 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2018 :  17:58:31 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Agree with you Rod, taking part was the thing - as long as I didn't finish last of course!

Joe, I started with a std 96 just Spax adjustable shockers, weber 28/36 and std gearbox. The problem with the std box is the big gap between 2nd and 3rd but apart from that I didn't have problems. When I got PUP I had a spec 2 gear set with low ratio diff all in a std casing. At the time I was still doing road rallies so found the low ratio diff to restricting on top end speed -6000 rpm about 90 to 95 mph. So I went back to a std diff but obviously kept the close ratio spec 2 gear set. This worked well and again never gave me problems although once I started doing more forest events I wished I could have afforded a limited slip diff just to stop losing speed on hairpin bends through waving an inside front wheel in the air! Removing the anti roll bar helped a little but an lsd for the forests would have been a great help. I wouldn't recommend one for road use though!
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Woody
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2446 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2018 :  23:57:41 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Great pics Geoff. What medium you using now to post? Would be nice to try and repair the broken links from Photobucket.

Rod Hunt - Taking part was the same for me. In a Saab with 1531cc, I was there to enjoy driving the stages and be different. Class wins were possible, never considered overall though did finish in top twenty twice.

Edited by - Woody on 04 Sep 2018 00:08:39
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RodHunt
Starting Member

10 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2018 :  08:30:00 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Woody - I never got as far as the stages with my Saab. Did a few West Country road rallies c. '75/'76 and had an entry in for a stage event but the gearbox started making strange noises and couldn't get everything back together in time. Since I had had the engine and box out four times in as many months by then I was rapidly running out of money, time and above all patience and decided to sell up. Everybody tells me Saabs are not normally as troublesome as mine was, I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt!

It was a basic car but with Weber 28/36, SAH exhaust, Spaxes all round, SD rear cage and a sumpguard cut down from a Hillman Imp one.

I would put some photos up but can't be doing with this Photobucket stuff.
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GeoffC
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
420 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2018 :  10:19:16 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Woody - I now use Imgbb.com to host photos, unfortunately I deleted all my account at Photobucket when they tried to put that ridiculous charge on us. Seems like if I had left them they would have come back up again as they seem to have had a change of heart. It's a great pity the forums have been devastated by their actions, the problem for me is finding the time to put the images back up although I agree it would be good for the forums records and worth while doing. Ironically if they had asked for a more reasonable fee I probably would have paid it!

RodHunt - we like to see pics from the days of more affordable rallying (especially Saabs) when the amateur could mix it with the big boys, so if you can give Imgbb a go as it uses a simple drag and drop facility to upload images so easy to use.

I never did much good on stage events - apart from one year on the Lakeland Stages when there was thick snow in the morning and ended up 7th at halfway. Then it thawed so slipped back down although I was still on for a class award but blew that when I rolled on the last stage and dropped 2 mins (cut a snow covered corner and found a tree stump!). My brother went on to win the prize piece of slate as co-driver in another Saab - that bit of slate appears on his mantlepiece every time I visit as it was him that got me to push harder on the last stage by telling me that they were catching us (they weren't!) and was something wrong with PUP!! That was rallymanship in those days so I can laugh about it now!! I blame my co-driver she should have had a better knowledge of our stage times!!!



Road events - I had a good run on but that was also very much due to my navigator Richard Burdon who was a wizard on the maps and knew his stuff. We got some good finishes due to his knowledge and my 100% blind faith in him. I remember one occasion pulling 6200 rpm in top over Osmotherley moor seemingly for miles, him counting down the yumps and telling me junction 90 left after the sixth. This was in thick fog and such was my confidence in him that upon landing after the sixth I braked hard, flicked the car sideways and right in front of me through the fog, the junction opened up and we were back on the throttle. Moments like that you knew you were working as a team and that too was the attraction of rallying - Great fun but couldn't contemplate doing that now!!





Edited by - GeoffC on 04 Sep 2018 10:23:47
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RodHunt
Starting Member

10 Posts

Posted - 05 Sep 2018 :  12:41:50 Show Profile Reply with Quote
https://ibb.co/esFa0K

Still trying to work out this imgBB! Have come up with a link to photo which is a start.

This is the Haldon MC Mini Monte Rally 1976. Myself and Jeremy Hancock. A snowy Saturday with a slight thaw in the afternoon just enough to give everything a coating of ice when it froze hard as the sun went down. Finally decided to give up with a slipping clutch, a split oil cooler pipe and generally fed up with the conditions. Shame because when Jeremy saw the tesults he reckoned we were in the top six.

Edited by - RodHunt on 05 Sep 2018 14:57:24
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joethescoot
Starting Member

United Kingdom
17 Posts

Posted - 05 Sep 2018 :  20:33:33 Show Profile Send joethescoot an AOL message Reply with Quote
Geoff and Rod,I decided to rally my 96,I知 having an engine built by Peter jones racing. I知 a total beginner,any advice on car prep and any prep for me would be greatly appreciated. I致e got a standard 96 with Ronals on it,. The engine will be 1800+ cc piintp pistons ,flowed heads,cam,38/38 carb and jet exercise exhaust.triple core rad,electronic ignition.the car has a solid shell,good brakes and steering.
What other prep is needed.
I知 joining the welsh border car club.
Many thanks joe
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RodHunt
Starting Member

10 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2018 :  09:01:11 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Joe, there are many people on here more qualified than me to comment, I last rallied a Saab 40 years ago and last rallied anything 30 years ago. You do not state what sort of rallying you are planning. Presumably historic but it would be well worthwhile to check what sort of modifications are allowed before making any mods. Take a look at the Historic Rally Car Register's website. As Geoff has suggested here, keep it simple, at least to start. The accepted concept always was make sure the brakes and the suspension are up to the task before starting to look for more power. I suspect people more knowledgeable than me will be along to give you advice.
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Derek
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1874 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2018 :  11:58:41 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Budget for a gearbox rebuild and then put the same amount aside for doing it again, hopefully later rather than sooner.
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GeoffC
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
420 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2018 :  14:25:01 Show Profile Reply with Quote
As Rod says it depends on which type of events you are planning on doing. If it's forest stages then you will need the rally springs and preferably Bilstein shockers, otherwise just uprated shockers will be enough. If you look at Woodys thread on building his car it has details of sump guard and extra strengthening etc. Re the gearbox if you are building an 1815cc engine then a competition box would really be preferable, both for the close ratios and strength. I never had a gearbox problem in all my years of rallying probably because I was advised by Phil Wilks (the previous owner) always to start off gently - build initial momentum in first get into second as quickly as possible and then boot it - don't scrabble the wheels on the start line. Also, I always used the freewheel so no engine braking load was ever put on the gearbox. Conversations with Chris Partington and Graham MacDonald have confirmed this approach if you want to preserve your gearbox. As for modern regs then your Motor club will help and you will need a copy of the RAC MSA Blue book of rules - most of which will be all new to me so best to read it in there.
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joethescoot
Starting Member

United Kingdom
17 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2018 :  18:31:26 Show Profile Send joethescoot an AOL message Reply with Quote
Thank you both very much
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ANP
Starting Member

United Kingdom
42 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2018 :  21:31:32 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Colin and I are planning to do the Grizedale Stages on Dec 8th. The silver Saab has been waiting for gearbox repairs which are nearly sorted now. We did RAC and Grizedale last year but that was enough for the 'box.
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