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freewheeler
V4 Mad

United Kingdom
601 Posts

Posted - 09 Jun 2007 :  16:36:04 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Has anyone ever fitted or considered fitting fuel injection to their v4? Is it technically possible to retro fit a system? What are the major hurdles? Does anyone know?

http://www.saabphotos.com/gallery/My-other-saabs

http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u202/kendoddnagasaki/

Mr Burrrrrrrrrrt
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
343 Posts

Posted - 09 Jun 2007 :  18:51:22 Show Profile Reply with Quote
It has been done, with a moose horn inlet manifold drilled for injectors with throttle bodies.

I always wondered whether it would be possible with a cut down V6 injection manifold. It might bolt straight on.
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Genty
V4 Mad

628 Posts

Posted - 09 Jun 2007 :  21:46:37 Show Profile Reply with Quote
It looks like the Sport & Rally dept toyed with it but it was not a huge success using the moose-horns. I can't get a direct link tot he wbe page but click the link below, click "Sonett Secrets" (bottom left) and then click the first artical at the top of the page. phew..

http://www.vintagesaab.com/sonett/default.htm

I tentatively looked into doing this with a custom manifold, Jenveys throttle bodies and something like a Megasquirt ECU. Would top 1000 and would not get a huge amount extra bhp, better off spending the money on an overbore.

Genty
www.performance96.co.uk
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Woody
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2542 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2007 :  13:12:53 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Alistair Philpott did an article on this subject for SOC "Driver" some months back.
Adam's link directs you to the late sixties/early seventies manifold that was used on the rally cars 1969/70. Reliability was an issue.
The Comp.Dept. found that after adapting the swan necks they could install a pair of Weber 45 DCOE 16S's and were getting a reliable 145BHP. They later homologated this crossover manifold, sometimes referred to as 'moosehorn', and utilised the base to re-use fuel injection in the mid 70's. Stig Blomqvist's 1975 RAC car ETK909 had fuel injection, which gave the car a tremendous gutteral beat as these rampipes were not filtered. There is a video of the 1975 RAC Rally which shows well the audible note of induction and exhaust of Stigs's car.
See also the 1977 film "Name of the Game" under www.saabhistory.com, which shows well both carburettor and fuel injection set-ups on the Scan-Auto Rally cars.
In those days there weren't many manufacturers using fuel injection, though now is is probable that a 2000 period system could be adapted for the V4. The Electronics and fuel regulating would be the major obstacle.


Edited by - Woody on 10 Jun 2007 13:17:56
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Genty
V4 Mad

628 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2007 :  16:22:25 Show Profile Reply with Quote
After Chattting with Sonnet about his 99 Turbo Killer project, this is what you need if anyone fancies giving it a go:

  • Twin inlet manifold

  • 2 x Twin Throttle Bodies

  • 36-1 tooth pulley

  • TDC sensor

  • Coolant sensor

  • Air sensor

  • Throttle Position sensor

  • Ignition system

  • ECU

  • Jenveys Fuel Rail

  • Thottle Linkage

  • Induction System

  • Fuel Pump

  • Fuel Pressure regulator

  • Fuel Injectors

  • Air horns

  • Wide band Lamda sensor

  • Lamda sensor controller


Any takers?

Genty
www.performance96.co.uk

Edited by - Genty on 11 Jun 2007 16:25:41
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James Ayres
V4 Mad

United Kingdom
652 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2007 :  17:06:30 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Sounds a bit too much like hard work! Also, would the benefits be worth it?

Keep on thrumming
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freewheeler
V4 Mad

United Kingdom
601 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2007 :  07:58:43 Show Profile Reply with Quote
that looks a bit of a tall order to me. It hardly seems worth all that effort especially if the benefits are limited. Thanks for all the info though. I will continue my quest for a twin inlet manifold.

http://www.saabphotos.com/gallery/My-other-saabs

http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u202/kendoddnagasaki/

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Borstlap
V4 Fanatic

Norway
303 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2007 :  11:41:45 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Bosch K-Jetronic systems that were used on 99 and 900 EMS's and early Torbos have been adapted. Don't know what the gains in hp were. Shouldn't be hard to get (I see sets on the spare-parts days quite regularly) and I guess it won't be very expensive.

Alex
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Graminal95
V4 Beginner

USA
87 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2007 :  11:29:48 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I have EFI on my rally 96, it works great. My inlet manifold was from Eklunds rally cross car back in the 70's, he was using mechanical injection, but not the controlled fuel leak type that the SAAB r/d guys came up with. Here are a few pics.

http://picasaweb.google.com/GWCullen/RallyCar52007?authkey=vQQPx82pAGM
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Genty
V4 Mad

628 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2007 :  18:49:17 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Love it!

Genty
www.performance96.co.uk
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Woody
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2542 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2007 :  19:56:29 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Very intersting photos Graminal95, and welcome to the forum. I see you have dual port heads. What size engine and what sort of power are you getting? Have you a pic of the inlet manifold beneath the venturi?
You have certainly re-engineered the electrics.
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Graminal95
V4 Beginner

USA
87 Posts

Posted - 23 Jun 2007 :  00:25:42 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Thanks... The engine is at 1815cc with custom forged pistons, its at about 10.8 to 1 with a 8.3 cam. The heads are dual exhaust port and have been ported to the max, I could go further but there is only about 3mm of material for the gasket for the moment. I think the valves are 38mm exhaust and 42mm intake? I would have to go look at my papers. I copied the factory exhaust and added my own tail section. I know that the same engine with down draft Weber makes around 140hp but thats with stock porting etc and without real ignition control. I think I will be able to get about 160hp and about 175hp with a korsinsug (cross flow) if I can find one cheap.

I dont think I have any other intake pics, but there are a few pics at my very old web page that I never finished here

http://www.geocities.com/graminal/home.html

If anyone knows where a I can get a lower part of a korsinsug cheap I would love to hear from you.
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James Ranaldi
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1472 Posts

Posted - 23 Jun 2007 :  20:05:59 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I want one !!
Do you think that John would consider a visit to Aberdeen to sort out my wee beastie.
Nice one Graminal95

Thrummmm....Thrummmm
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Graminal95
V4 Beginner

USA
87 Posts

Posted - 23 Jun 2007 :  22:29:37 Show Profile Reply with Quote
John is still doing some v4 stuff here and there, but is big into making cossy stuff for the Sierra.

I think that for a bunch of dough he would come over and sort your car out.

He just did a 96, I think he has some picts up at www.JVAB.f4.ca

Oh and Mr Burrrrrrrrrrt, I have had a v6 (2.9) cut up to use for an intake and lets just say it would be a ton of work. The 2.9 uses a cam chain and so the thermostat housing is in the way of the front cover on our v4s, it also does not have the coolant passage that is needed.... a few other things are needed, so for the same amount of welding you could mod a stock manifold and have a better design. I think about 19in long runners at about 40mm wide would be best. The stock saab cross flow is best if you can find one for a good price.
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James Ranaldi
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1472 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2007 :  18:08:13 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Thanks Graminal95. I will have to dream on!!

Great link...very interesting photographs...thanks.

Thrummmm....Thrummmm
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
3388 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2015 :  22:35:40 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I spotted this recent video on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oF0tZZtXjIg Please tell us more about your project Graham, your set-up looks ace!

1970 96V4 "The Devil's Own V4"
1977 95V4 van conversion project
1988 900i 8V
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