| Author |  Topic  |
EdinburghJoe
V4 Fan
United Kingdom
162 Posts |  Posted - 27 Oct 2019 : 21:00:38  
| Hi all,
After a summer of on-off problems with my 96 I'm wandering if it's time to fit electronic ignition.
I've had the engine die a couple of months ago, found that the points were black. I cleaned them with paper and got the car home. I put in new points plus a new condenser (both from Malbrad). I also scraped clean the connecting surfaces between the condenser and the dizzy, plus the engine and gearbox and the earth strap. The coil, dizzy cap, plugs and HT leads are all new-ish (3 years, around 3K miles). The car itelf has only done about 35K miles.
Today I got about a mile from the house and the the engine died completely. I took the cover off the carb and it was full of fuel, and by the time I'd done that I could start the engine and get home, but by the time I got there it was starting to misbehave again.
I think it's likely to be down to the ignition system (I've read that a failing condenser can give the sort of problems I tend to have, where it's fine until the engine warms through), but I'm wandering if the best thing to do is to stop persevering with the existing system and fit electronic ignition.
Has anyone got any advice on what would be a good system to use? I'm not looking to improve the car in any way - just something that would be more reliable. Easy to fit would be a bonus too! From looking elsewhere on this site it seems that there are plenty out there...
Any help appreciated as always,
Joe |
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melle
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
3833 Posts | |
deggsie
V4 Fanatic
United Kingdom
432 Posts | Posted - 27 Oct 2019 : 22:34:31
| I fitted an Accuspark system (about £30/35 from Watford Classic Cars on 'the Bay') to my 96 a few years ago and agree with Melle about the range of improvements. I keep a spare in the boot 'just in case' !
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Saab - beyond the conventional ! |  |
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Derek
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2191 Posts | Posted - 28 Oct 2019 : 13:26:07
| | Sort your fueling problem out first. If you use freewheel, a bad needle valve will allow the fuel pump to overload the fuel bowl and that in turn will flood the manifold. I have a long thread here on my similar problems that were caused by a leaky float. If you can leave the car for a few minutes and the fuel evaporates in the manifold It will normally start up again. It will do it again unless you are on the throttle all of the time but may fail again at idle or when free wheeling down a long hill due to flooding. If your fuel consumption is bad, that can also be a sign of over fuelling. | |
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EdinburghJoe
V4 Fan
United Kingdom
162 Posts | Posted - 28 Oct 2019 : 14:51:20
| Thanks for the replies.
I looked at Melle’s instructions and I think they are pushing the limits of my comfort zone. I liked the look of the accuspark mentioned by Degsie- it seems a simple solution and will get rid of the suspect points and condenser at a stroke, and it’s not much money or effort wasted if it doesn’t work.
Derek- I only mentioned the fuel in the carb to show that fuel was getting to it given that the engine had died so completely and so suddenly. To
my mind the fact that it was full of fuel was a good thing! As it happens I don’t use freewheel.
I think I’ll go for the accuspark, if that doesn’t do the trick then I’ll need to look elsewhere (and the carb would be the next place)
Joe | |
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Betsy67
V4 Fanatic
United Kingdom
409 Posts | Posted - 28 Oct 2019 : 20:13:38
| | Had the Accuspark on Betsy for quite a while - as the eBay advert says ‘probably the best money you’ll spend on your classic car’ | |
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melle
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
3833 Posts | Posted - 28 Oct 2019 : 20:27:19
| I agree with Derek that fault finding should be separated from deciding on fitting electronic ignition.
www.saabv4.com | |
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EdinburghJoe
V4 Fan
United Kingdom
162 Posts | Posted - 28 Oct 2019 : 20:40:56
| | I'm reasonably convinced that my problem is down to the ignition (in particular the contacts and condenser). If I'm right then the accuspark should sort it: if not then it means I can discount at least the LT section of the ignition and look elsewhere (probably fuelling as Derek suggests), with the bonus that when I do finally find the 'real' problem I'll have already fitted electronic ignition. That's the theory anyway... | |
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melle
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
3833 Posts | Posted - 28 Oct 2019 : 21:53:53
| I can follow your reasoning, but I personally see assumption as nothing more than a starting point for a systematic diagnostic process. If you suspect the issue is with the points and/ or condenser, it's worth at least checking what sort of spark you get, i.e. powerful and blue/ white or weak and red, to confirm your assumption before starting to replace possibly sound parts. Also other basic diagnostic processes such as checking points gap, ignition timing, valve clearance and compression don't cost anything and are very informative.
www.saabv4.com | |
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GeoffC
V4 Mad
United Kingdom
507 Posts | Posted - 29 Oct 2019 : 12:27:06
| | I can recommend the Accuspark system. Put it on my Sonett and it cured all the cold starting issues and gave me better running. I always thought my cold start issues, missing slightly and spluttering for the first few minutes was down to my weber 28/36 but obviously it wasn't!! Easy to fit and not expensive. I went for the kit which included a sports coil. | |
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EdinburghJoe
V4 Fan
United Kingdom
162 Posts | Posted - 29 Oct 2019 : 12:52:30
| I've ordered the Accuspark - I liked its simplicity, and the fact it gets rid of the condenser..
My 'other' hobby is restoring valve radios. They use high voltage capacitors which are like condensers. With a radio you would routinely replace any capacitor more than 20-30 years old because they can develop an internal short circuit over time, especially if left unused. I'm wandering if the 'new' condensers I've been buying might actually be 'old', (ie New Old Stock) and if they start to leak electrically after a short while of running it would certainly explain how the car starts well, but then loses power and dies, maybe 10-20 minutes later. It would be shorting out the points. I know it's not the only possible explanation, but given that I have had sooty points earlier this year I strongly suspect some sort of problem with the LT circuit (though a leaking condenser would lead to less sooting I'd have thought - it's not a clear picture unfortunately).
I have already checked the points gap, replaced the points, and used a strobe to check the timing. I've also stripped and cleaned the carb earlier this year to fix an air leak, so I've been over some of the other likely culprits already.
When it comes to judging the strength of a spark - I've taken a plug out and held it (with its HT lead on) against the block and turned the engine. I do see a spark and it is blue, but I don't have anything to judge it against never having tried this on a different car. If I had to guess I'd say it does look a little unconvincing though.
When the accuspark comes I'll put it in and report back...
Joe | |
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melle
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
3833 Posts | Posted - 29 Oct 2019 : 13:24:12
| If the condenser is bad I would expect the spark to be very weak and reddish. I've had more success with ancient Bosch condensers than with modern aftermarket Chinese or Italian ones. A badly worn fibre actuator block on the points (cheapies often suffer from this after only a few hundred miles) or worn lobes on the distributor shaft can also contribute to the symptoms you described.
www.saabv4.com | |
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Dynorog
V4 Fanatic
United Kingdom
250 Posts | Posted - 30 Oct 2019 : 08:23:26
| I certainly agree with the issue of poor quality points. The fibre block on some which I fitted wore down and closed up on my way home from Swedish day. They had covered 175 miles!
Cheers
Dynorog | |
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Zagato
V4 Mad
United Kingdom
812 Posts | Posted - 30 Oct 2019 : 13:19:13
| Another vote for Accuspark. Noticeable difference!
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green96v4
V4 Mad
Canada
738 Posts | Posted - 31 Oct 2019 : 14:40:18
| | I'm with Zagato - I've been running Accuspark and it's very easy to live with, set it and forget it! | |
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chris steeden
V4 Fan
United Kingdom
163 Posts | Posted - 31 Oct 2019 : 15:53:20
| | Within reason that should be the way with a competently fitted set of points. | |
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| Topic | |
Time for Electronic Ignition
The engine will idle more smoothly, rev better and the fuel economy will improve as well.