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green96v4 V4 Mad
Canada 737 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2021 : 13:18:56
| so at a bit of a cross roads with my car, I've never been fully confident with the fibre timing gears (I know there's a lot of people who say they're fine and should never give you any problems, but...)
a Ford engine specialist in Essex is telling me the metal gears are way too noisy and I'll regret fitting them (image borrowed from MotoMobil) and are recommending the "hybrid" gear design as the material is much harder than the original fibre (which they've also point out is now 50 years old)
A far away dream is the possibility of fitting a/c, summers in Ontario are pretty toasty (often in the +30ºC range) there was a dealer fit a/c in North America and they occasionally come up for sale, or figuring out a Vintage Air set up might be a cool winter project
So question for anyone with a full metal gear set - are they noisy? would the hybrid set be up to the load that a/c would put on it - prices are about the same, so it's more about the balance between refinement and longevity |
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SAAB96L V4 Mad
United Kingdom 501 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2021 : 13:35:55
| A timely thread, as I have been looking at different gear sets.
Can I confirm that the steel gears are in the top photo and and the hybrid is the lower photo. Out of interest, what is the make of up of the hybrid gear wheels please ??
Is the Ford specialist Burton, by any chance ??
Thank you.
Richard. | |
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green96v4 V4 Mad
Canada 737 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2021 : 13:52:35
| Specialised Engines are the company, in Gray, Essex
Ian Melville has said the hybrid (bottom photo) are a much harder composite than the original fibre, I'm not sure what they are made of exactly - he also stated they had an engine in with full metal gear set that the owner though had something wrong, they immediately identified it was the metal gear making so much noise and pulled them out, so he's not a fan! | |
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SAAB96L V4 Mad
United Kingdom 501 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2021 : 14:15:44
| Okay, good to know.
Thank you.
Richard. | |
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melle V4 Guru
United Kingdom 3830 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2021 : 14:32:09
| I'm a big fan of fibre timing gears for road engines, they're much quieter than steel ones indeed and they make a lot of sense from an engineering point of view as well. If the balance shaft bearings go or the engine gets jammed for one reason or another, the worst that can happen is a gear stripping.
Not sure what the point of the "hybrid" gears is, replaceable gear ring? I have a few sets of used OEM Ford "hybrid" ones, but they have the gear moulded onto the cast iron base. I'm pretty sure you can still get timing gear sets from Ford.
I wouldn't bother with an ancient Saab AC, maybe just the outlet that mounts under the dashbut not the cast iron compressor etc. Vintage Air is the way forward I'd say, they seem to do quality stuff.
www.saabv4.com | |
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green96v4 V4 Mad
Canada 737 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2021 : 18:16:33
| Ian at Specialised Engines says the fibre component is much stronger than the original gears | |
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UK_Sub V4 Guru
United Kingdom 2555 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2021 : 18:20:01
| Out of interest, what are the costs for metal/hybrid gear sets?
Also, if you go for Vintage Air, can you let us know which kit you used (or perhaps part no.s if it's not a kit)? Just asking as it gets pretty warm in the pickup cab! | |
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green96v4 V4 Mad
Canada 737 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2021 : 19:31:34
| ahem....not cheap (like £300)
and yes, will do on the Vintage Air (although that maybe a couple of years off after I've paid for this round of upgrades, gearbox has gone off to South Carolina for Larry Lautenslager to look at/rebuild - the saga continues!!!)
I may have to go for something generic with them as they have lots of kits for domestic Chevys and all that muscle nonsense!! | |
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Borstlap V4 Fanatic
Norway 333 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2021 : 20:16:01
| I read that when dealers in the US installed airco's metal gears were used. I can imagine that an additional airco pump is too much stress on fiber gears. In order to reduce noise you could always decide not to chance the cam shaft gear.
Alex | |
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Borstlap V4 Fanatic
Norway 333 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2021 : 20:18:02
| quote: Originally posted by Borstlap I read that when dealers in the US installed airco's metal gears were used. I can imagine that an additional airco pump is too much stress on fiber gears. In order to reduce noise you could always decide not to chance the cam shaft gear. Price for metal gears and the hybrid version is about the same.
Alex
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melle V4 Guru
United Kingdom 3830 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2021 : 21:43:57
| Balance shaft gears are always "hybrids", admittedly the OEM ones are not the heavy duty type. Using an uprated balance shaft gear may make sense if you install aircon. I don't really see the point of an uprated cam shaft gear though, unless you're using really stiff valve springs maybe.
www.saabv4.com | |
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green96v4 V4 Mad
Canada 737 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2021 : 22:15:42
| Isn’t the motomobil image balance shaft gear all metal? | |
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melle V4 Guru
United Kingdom 3830 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2021 : 22:42:10
| Yes, sorry I meant OEM balance shaft gears are always hybrids.
www.saabv4.com | |
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TTruckie V4 Fanatic
United Kingdom 320 Posts | Posted - 12 Apr 2021 : 22:47:16
| I've got a set of Malbrads metal gear and don't find them noisy. | |
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Woody V4 Guru
United Kingdom 2758 Posts | Posted - 13 Apr 2021 : 13:26:28
| When I put my rally engine back together I had the original fibre gears which are 1968, but I got a steel balance shaft gear from Clive Hodgson, which had been sourced through Richard and Les Simpson. It does have a bit of whine but it is currently drowned out by the fan bearing. | |
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green96v4 V4 Mad
Canada 737 Posts | Posted - 13 Apr 2021 : 15:24:10
| thanks Woody, I got a quieter fan bearing off Melle as mine was noisy too - I think I'm actually talking myself into the hybrids and to forego the a/c (which I feel is a bunch of engineering to undo what I'm doing now anyway, most of the set ups I've seen have a 2nd rad and electric fans) | |
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