| Author |  Topic  |
andydeans3
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2016 Posts |  Posted - 30 Mar 2022 : 18:34:23  
| I recently bought two new rear brake drums from the SAAB Klubben in Sweden.
Today I fitted new bearings and grease seal to the drums in preparation for changing out the old worn out ones, currently on the car.
When all was assembled it seemed that the grease seal was sitting 4 mm below the level of the hub. The drawing in the manual says it should fit down against the bearing, and be flush with the top. I haven't got the old ones off yet to check, but I'm pretty sure the grease seal sits flush.
The inner bearing sits down hard against a shoulder. Obviously I can position the grease seal flush with the top, but with a 4 mm gap then present between it, and the bearing, it's likely to go "walkies".
Any thought chaps?
I should add that the bearings were bought on E bay, not long after I got the car in 2013. No brand name on them. The grease seals came recently from Malbrad.
Photo below.
1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
1991 Nissan Figaro |
Edited by - andydeans3 on 30 Mar 2022 18:39:47 |
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Woody
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2764 Posts | Posted - 31 Mar 2022 : 01:40:58
| The seal should be level with the level of the hub and NOT pressed down. Saab manual info for assistance:-
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Edited by - Woody on 31 Mar 2022 12:41:59 |  |
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chris steeden
V4 Fan
United Kingdom
163 Posts | Posted - 31 Mar 2022 : 08:32:16
| Did you press in the lock ring Andy? Position 5 on the above diagram. Was the new bearing the right size? or the new seal.
If yes to these can you try a double lip seal to see if its deeper?
Looking at the above diagram it looks like there is some sort of spacer/seal behind the outer bearing but the part is not numbered.
Sorry, but I don't have a Saab or parts to check and it was a long time ago that I had a V4. Best of luck. | |
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andydeans3
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2016 Posts | Posted - 31 Mar 2022 : 12:18:19
| Ah, there IS a spacer ring there. I have not yet removed the old drum, so don't have access to it yet.
I'll get the drums off this afternoon, take the seal out, recover the spacer ring, and I'll be cooking with gas! (very expensive gas! ).
1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
1991 Nissan Figaro | |
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Derek
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2191 Posts | Posted - 31 Mar 2022 : 13:31:23
| | 5. Refit the circlip. Is that missing? It looks as if it also sets the depth for the seal. Am I reading that right? | |
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andydeans3
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2016 Posts | Posted - 31 Mar 2022 : 22:21:54
| Derek.
I have not as yet removed the old hubs, though I don't have a recollection of there being a circlip. or a spacer. I hope to get the hubs off in the next couple of days. All will then be revealed.
1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
1991 Nissan Figaro | |
|
andydeans3
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2016 Posts | Posted - 01 Apr 2022 : 19:57:06
| I've got the old hub off the car now, and yes Derek, there is a circlip
Not very clear on my drawing that there is a circlip there. There is no parts list.
Anyway, silly me......
However, having removed the circlip from the old hub, and tried to fit it to the new hub, it's clear that the bearing in the new hub is partially covering the circlip groove. Probably only tenths of a millimetre, but enough to stop the circlip seating properly.
The bearing was pushed in with a hydraulic press and is fully home, so my guess is the circlip groove is very, very slightly out of place in the new hub.
The circlip is 1.8 mm thick, I've tried thinning it down a bit on the bench grinder, but hasn't made much difference.
I'm now going to start looking for a thinner 62 mm OD circlip on E bay!!!
1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
1991 Nissan Figaro | |
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melle
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
3833 Posts | Posted - 01 Apr 2022 : 21:02:29
| Did you fit the circlip the right way around? The tapered side should face away from the bearing.
www.saabv4.com | |
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andydeans3
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2016 Posts | Posted - 02 Apr 2022 : 12:20:27
| quote:
Originally posted by melle
Did you fit the circlip the right way around? The tapered side should face away from the bearing.
www.saabv4.com
The circlip was not tapered. I tried thinning it down carefully on my bench grinder, and putting a taper on one side, but that didn't help.
I've now done some measurements this morning.
On the old hub the top of the circlip groove is 12.4 mm down from the top face. On the new hub it's more like 13.5 mm.
See photos below.
No big deal, I'll get a local machine shop to widen the circlip groove on the upper side by 1.mm, and I should be cooking by gas, if I could afford the stuff
Old drum
New drum
1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
1991 Nissan Figaro | |
|
Derek
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2191 Posts | Posted - 02 Apr 2022 : 13:10:10
| | Maybe carefully tap the bearing inwards. It might not have gone all the way in. Hopefully not because of dirt. If theses are a recent batch of drums it is possible that they have all been machined incorrectly. Worth getting in touch with the Saab Klubben? | |
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melle
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
3833 Posts | Posted - 02 Apr 2022 : 13:24:57
| quote:
Originally posted by andydeans3
The circlip was not tapered.
Shows it's been a while since I took a drum apart Andy!
I think your measurement is not very relevant, what matters is the distance between the groove and the face the bearing sits against I suppose? In other words, have that face machined if required, and leave the groove unaltered.
EDIT: Although I still think your measurement is irrelevant, forget my last suggestion. If you have the face machined, the bearing moves inwards and the spacer will no longer fit. I need to check the drawings in the parts book first before offering more useless ideas!
www.saabv4.com |
Edited by - melle on 02 Apr 2022 13:37:35 | |
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andydeans3
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2016 Posts | Posted - 02 Apr 2022 : 13:44:21
| quote:
Originally posted by Derek
Maybe carefully tap the bearing inwards. It might not have gone all the way in. Hopefully not because of dirt. If theses are a recent batch of drums it is possible that they have all been machined incorrectly. Worth getting in touch with the Saab Klubben?
The bearing is definitely fully home, I have a hydraulic press. With a pretty clear 1mm difference in depth of the circlip groove, it aint going to go in.
As I said, no big deal, I'll get the circlip groove widened up, by about a mill.
I bought them through Bill at Saabits, who bought them from the Saab Klubben. (Saab Klubben still can't ship to individuals in the UK. Whether it's to do with Brexit or not, it's a pain in the posterior!)
I have already contacted him, and suggested he give the Saab Klubben some feed back.
1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
1991 Nissan Figaro |
Edited by - andydeans3 on 02 Apr 2022 16:25:58 | |
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andydeans3
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2016 Posts | Posted - 02 Apr 2022 : 22:47:10
| quote:
Originally posted by melle
quote:
Originally posted by andydeans3
The circlip was not tapered.
Shows it's been a while since I took a drum apart Andy!
I think your measurement is not very relevant, what matters is the distance between the groove and the face the bearing sits against I suppose? In other words, have that face machined if required, and leave the groove unaltered.
EDIT: Although I still think your measurement is irrelevant, forget my last suggestion. If you have the face machined, the bearing moves inwards and the spacer will no longer fit. I need to check the drawings in the parts book first before offering more useless ideas!
www.saabv4.com
Melle. The distance from the top datum, down to the bottom shoulder, where the bearing seats, is the same on both the new and old drum. Around 33 mm. When the bearing is fully down, in the new drum, it is quite clearly partially covering the circlip groove, making it impossible to get the circlip in the groove. The measurements shown above show that the TOP of the groove on the new drum is around 1 mm lower than on the old drum, which is why the circlip will not go in, therefore my measurements are relevant.
1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
1991 Nissan Figaro | |
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Derek
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2191 Posts | Posted - 03 Apr 2022 : 21:43:43
| | Would we take from that, that the bearing heights are different? Higher on the new ones? | |
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andydeans3
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2016 Posts | Posted - 03 Apr 2022 : 21:54:49
| quote:
Originally posted by Derek
Would we take from that, that the bearing heights are different? Higher on the new ones?
Not quite sure what you mean Derek.
The distance from the bottom, where the bearings seat, up to the circlip groove, is lower on the new drums, so that when the bearing is fully seated, (with a hydraulic press), the circlip groove is slightly covered by the bearing, preventing the circlip from seating properly.
Knowing that the distance from the top datum, down to the bearing seat, is identical for both old and new drum, I simply found it easier to measure down from the top, to compare the bearing spacing, for the old and new drum.
1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
1991 Nissan Figaro | |
|
Derek
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2191 Posts | Posted - 04 Apr 2022 : 13:39:19
| | Bearing dimension. Thickness which determines the depth. Repeating myself but it does sound as if the drum hasn't been machined deep enough to allow the bearing down to a position that allows the circlip in. It will mean removing the bearing again but worth checking. Either that depth or the position of the circlip groove could be wrong | |
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| Topic | |
Rear brake drums. Grease seal position.
