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| T O P I C R E V I E W | | EdinburghJoe | Posted - 08 Jun 2020 : 13:11:44
Hi all,
I've been having a look under the back seat of my 1972 96, and notice that the fuel pipe might be original - it's got a black fabric weave covering it and it certainly looks like it has been in place for a long time. I replaced some similar piping in the engine bay a couple of years back.
When I put my nose right close to the pipe I could very faintly smell petrol, but I do have to be very close. The condition of the pipe certainly looks OK from the outside.
If the fuel system seems fine then is there any reason to routinely replace this?
Given that I expect the response will be 'Yes' - how to do it? It's in a really awkward place going straight into the box section by the tank. Is it possible to loosen the tank straps and move the tank backwards on the right side far enough to gain access without disturbing the filler and vent hoses on the left?
Or is it possible to reach through the hole in the box section from under the seat (Doubtful!) Or does the tank have to come out?
Also, when I did the front fuel hose sections I used jubilee clips, not the specific fuel hose clips that were on there originally. They seemed to do the trick, are they OK here too?
Thanks all,
Joe | | 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) | | melle | Posted - 01 Sep 2021 : 20:23:13
I agree that branded hose specifically designed for E10 is the preferable option when replacing fuel lines, my point was that it's impossible to tell for a layperson which one of the known brands produces the "best" option. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if Gates Barricade wasn't available and I had to use one of their competitors' offerings. ;)
NL and other countries have had E10 for a few years already, I've not heard of anyone have any problems with fuel hoses or carb membranes on their V4s so far.
www.saabv4.com | | SAAB96L | Posted - 01 Sep 2021 : 13:29:09
Gates, Cohline and Codan, have sunk millions of funds in to designing a fuel hose that would combat the effects of E10 and other harmful chemicals in fuel.
As fuels have developed at pace with an ethanol percentage, so has the requirement of the pipe that carries it. For ages R6 was suitable and then E5 started to appear, fuel pipe was upgraded accordingly and R9 was the required product to carry this fuel safely.
When E10 was announced it would be arriving in 2021, the above companies got on with their R&D to produce hose that would satisfy the requirements - the rating went to R14.
As the levels of ethanol has increased and the R rating has risen to match it, I have moved along with the latest and most ethanol resilient fuel hose.
Gates Barricade, IMHO, is probably the most advanced hose produced to deal with ethanol - that is because it has been specifically designed to deal with E10.
The compatibility of fuel lines and their resistance to E10 will now be tested in earnest. Hose such as R6 and R9 will struggle over time to keep their integrity; as the 10% ethanol slowly degrades the rubber from the inside. Plenty of hose looks A1 from the outside, but it's what is occurring within the hose that is key.
At the end of the day it is personal choice. For me it is about giving my classics the best possible opportunity to combat ethanol. | | melle | Posted - 01 Sep 2021 : 12:10:10
How long was your longevity test with E10? I've always used whatever was available from the motor factors or branded stuff (e.g., Gates) if bought online. Everything I've used so far has held up fine for 10-15 years (also with E10 more recently), at which point it would probably not be a bad idea to replace hoses anyway. Not picking on you, just not sure how to tell what fuel line is "best". Very much like oil or tyres, some clearly don't work very well, but other than that I think it comes down to personal preference, marketing, willingness to pay a premium etc. I always tell my students they should make sure things are fit for purpose, rather than "best".
www.saabv4.com | | SAAB96L | Posted - 01 Sep 2021 : 11:49:10
Hello Melle,
Basically as a result of suitability, longevity, availability. I did not factor cost as it a safety issue - hence, what price your car.
Regards.
Richard.
| | melle | Posted - 01 Sep 2021 : 08:33:45
How did you establish your top three?
www.saabv4.com | | SAAB96L | Posted - 31 Aug 2021 : 15:07:00
Gates Barricade fuel pipe is probably the best hose you can fit and is purpose made for ethanol related fuels. Best VFM price is via Moss. What I also like about Gates is that it can be purchased in either Metric or Imperial.
Close second is Cohline fuel hose with Codan running in at third.
The R grade needs to be R14 these days.
| | EdinburghJoe | Posted - 31 Aug 2021 : 11:04:08
Just an update on this: the fuel hose I used was from Halfords (yes, I know...) rated SAEJ30 R6. As soon as I used it in the tank connection the car always smelt of fuel when I got in, but there were no visible leaks. I guessed it must be permeation so I recently replaced it with 'Gates Barricade' (or possibly 'Gates Greenshield'?) hose, to SAE30 R14T1 - sold as being low permeation, and that seems to have got rid of the smell. | | n/a | Posted - 21 Jun 2020 : 13:15:55
Melle thanks for noticing that I am once more a newbie!! Don't know what has happened there but after all of the problems I've had since the new version of Edge was inflicted upon me I suspect that is the cause. Don't remember what my number of posts were but above 2.5k at least. If Alec reads this perhaps he can correct/update it. I will cross post this to "News" as he will likely see it there.
| | melle | Posted - 20 Jun 2020 : 21:51:38
Great to hear Joe!
www.saabv4.com | | EdinburghJoe | Posted - 20 Jun 2020 : 20:53:06
Thanks for all the helpful replies - I was pretty nervous about it, a friend of a friend had really nasty burns after a fire when he was using petrol to srip a floor so I wanted to be careful. I did the job yesterday and it worked out fine. Just in case anybody else reads this, here's what I did:
- I started with a full tank (not a good idea), but siphoned out about 3 or 4 litres using a fuel hose shoved down the filler pipe. The hose didn't seem to go in very far, which was why the siphon stopped working after only a small amount. I guess if you were starting with 3/4 full tank or less then this step wouldn't be necessary.
- Under the back seat, I clamped the hose to be replaced with mole grips, and cut off the original clip joining the hose to the metal pipe under the seat, using a hacksaw.
- I was pretty wary of the siphon action which a couple of people have mentioned, so I cautiously opened the mole grips and allowed fuel to flow into a 2 litre drink bottle lying on its side, holding the end of the hose as low as I could. After about one or so litres the bottle was as full as it could get in that position, so I clamped the pipe and put the lid on the bottle. Then got another bottle and did the same thing, but by this time the siphon action wouldn't start again, so I concluded I'd taken enough out. I let the open end of the hose dangle down and there was no fuel coming out, so I thought it must be safe enough to then undo the connector at the tank.
- The rest of it was pretty easy. The tank connector undid easily, and 6mm hose fitted both ends fine. I used fairly slim fuel hose clamps (from Halfords) rather than jubilee clips - they were small enough to allow me to clamp the hose to the connector off the car, and thread the whole thing through the hole in the bulkhead and screw it into the tank.
- Connect the hose to the metal pipe under the seat, using a similar connector and empty the bottles of petrol back in the tank.
- And I disconnected the battery throughout.
Took the car for an 80 mile drive today (furthest I've been in about 9 months) and it was fine, so I must have done something right! | | melle | Posted - 19 Jun 2020 : 16:47:33
I've replaced a few fuel hoses; can't remember ever emptying a tank first, but perhaps I checked them and they were already nearly empty. It's only a small hole, so it won't leak out that fast, perhaps plugging the vent (behind the bumper or on top of the tank) helps too. In addition to what Derek (new account?) suggests, cut a new piece of hose to the right length with one end plugged, swap over the hoses at the tank end, remove the old hose from rigid line, remove the plug from the new hose, and quickly connect it to the hard line. Leave two jubilee clips dangling around the hose first, you can do them up when everything is in place. There is a drain plug in the bottom of the tank (usually they're not easy to open), but I would just siphon the fuel out (suck and spit!) if you want to empty the tank first. No need to loosen the tank straps, just leave everything where it is. Don't overthink it!
www.saabv4.com | | n/a | Posted - 19 Jun 2020 : 12:23:06
Make the effort to get as much petrol out of the tank before you start the job. You know it makes sense. Disconnect hose at the fixed pipe end first and quickly stick something in it to stopper it off. Have that end higher than the tank when you loosen the tank end clamp to stop the syphon action and it should be much less messy. Have a cloth or some blue roll handy.
Drain plug? Probably. Beware of sparks. Disconnect battery as the first job.
| | ianh | Posted - 18 Jun 2020 : 16:18:16
Hi Joe, nice talking to you today. All the above cover what we were talking about, Derek mentions the different sizes of connections, the tank outlet was the smaller one, not a tight fit for the hose.
I can't help on the fuel spillage question as my tank was empty at the time.
Have you thought of fitting an electric pump while you are at it?
Regard Ian | | Iain G | Posted - 18 Jun 2020 : 16:05:03
I am sure you can get a spanner in the gap without removing or loosening tank.
Fuel pipe bore is 6mm.
You are bound to spill a little fuel from pipe but not tank.
Iain G | | EdinburghJoe | Posted - 18 Jun 2020 : 15:16:06
This job has moved to the top of my 'to do' list now that I've done the brakes on my 'normal' car.
A few questions just to clarify:
1) Melle said I can do the job with the tank in situ: does this mean loosening it and moving it back to get some space, as I suggested, or leaving it where it is?
2) Anyone know what bore of fuel line I need?
3) How likely am I to spill petrol all over the place (I always tend to keep the tank fairly full)? Inside the tank, does the fuel line rise above the level of the petrol, so preventing it all just leaking out if I undo the hose? Derek mentioned a syphon action - could I negate this by blowing back into the tank to force the fuel out of the downward section of pipe?
Thanks all,
Joe
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