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 Clutch problems. Pedal travel too short?
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andydeans3
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1550 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2020 :  22:53:07 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Melle.

Yeah, getting a bit long winded, main thing is that the car's working fine now!
I see that the Great Western Classic car Show is on at the Royal bath and West, 8th/9th February, so you never know.
Andy

1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
1991 Nissan Figaro
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VLM
Starting Member

Canada
10 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2020 :  11:38:38 Show Profile Reply with Quote
A better solution in the long term is to have the flywheel recut the next time that the engine is out (if there ever is a next time) to get the correct depth for clearance without resorting to shims. I just converted to a 200mm VW clutch/flywheel setup and made the depth adjustments on the lightened flywheel rather than go with shims.
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Gavinc
V4 Fan

United Kingdom
103 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2020 :  21:25:53 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Thats interesting VLM, how much did you take out of the flywheel? I took mine down to fit a VW clutch, but you then start to have clearance issues with the flywheel bolts. I had to take a skim off the bolts also, and still needed to use shim washers on the spring plate.

96V4 stage rally car
99 stage rally car.
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VLM
Starting Member

Canada
10 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2020 :  04:30:11 Show Profile Reply with Quote
GavinC: I'll get back to you in a day or so. JN, a fellow who works for/with me on the things (and everything else as well - he is a master of all things mechanical) will be back in tomorrow. We have a rather "snappy" lathe in the barn and he did the work with it. I will get the measurements from him. We may have an "ortho 3D" of the flywheel as currently turned down. If so, I will post it.

VLM
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Betsy67
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
397 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2020 :  07:13:17 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Quite interested in the VW clutch fitting details.
Think I have two variants in my garage. One from an Air cooled T/P and another from a T4.
Not sure which one I've been messing about with, but it fits in the Saab flywheel nicely.
Is the correct option the 200 or 220mm Diaphragm ?
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Iain G
V4 Fan

United Kingdom
138 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2020 :  14:28:55 Show Profile Reply with Quote
From my own painful experience I know that one way or another you need to have the centre plate on the clutch cover, which contacts the release bearing, protruding just above the main domed shape of the clutch cover pressing. Just a millimetre or two. If the centre plate is below the dome then it is too much travel for the release bearing and you end up shimming the slave cylinder forwards which is the common bodge and can lead to clutch sticking and/or release arm catching the clutch cover. You can achieve the right height by shimming under the clutch cover bolts or skimming the flywheel. Same for spring or diaphragm clutches with the donut. I know some diaphragms dont have the donut and you must use a thicker stepped release bearing with these not the flat type. You set these with fingers pointing outwards slightly. Never inwards.
Hope I have explained ok.

Iain G
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Betsy67
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
397 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2020 :  07:15:03 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Iain G - sounds reasonable to me.
I have a spare pressure plate as well as the VW diaphragms, so I'll probably have a bit of a 'play' at sometime when it warms up a bit. Been rather busy with Betsy since December and hopefully all sorted now. Had a few shortish test drives and all appears ok.
Does the flywheel need drilling and tapping to accommodate the diaphragm ?
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Iain G
V4 Fan

United Kingdom
138 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2020 :  14:47:13 Show Profile Reply with Quote
New diaphragms from Malbrad are direct fit and dont need modified flywheel.
Older or used ones might.

Iain G
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greg124
V4 Fan

United Kingdom
173 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2021 :  17:35:09 Show Profile Reply with Quote
My car has just developed a fault which may be partly related to this.
The clutch biting point has always been quite high in the time I've had the car, and I've never been able to adjust out the grinding noise (as mentioned above)with the pedal fully depressed. This morning I reversed the car across the yard and when putting it in first gear we failed to proceed. I'm expecting the friction plate to need replacing.
However, I decided to bleed the hydraulics to see whether it made any difference, and now the pedal can only be depressed about 2 inches, but with the engine running only a fraction of an inch depression before the grinding starts.
I'm beginning to wonder if I might have a bent release arm?
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andydeans3
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1550 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2021 :  22:45:57 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Mmm, if the clutch operating arm is coming into contact with the clutch/flywheel assembly after only a fraction of an inch of arm movement, then there must be something seriously wrong.

Before doing anything drastic, check the clearance, and if you can get access to another 96, pull back the rubber cover on the bell housing where the clutch actuator goes in, and compare the position of the assembly at rest, and compare how far it moves in.
You could also check back at the beginning of this thread, somewhere there I noted some measurements of the actuating system in motion.
If you weren't so far away, I'd come and have a look!


My clutch has worked perfectly since shimming the slave cylinder forward slightly last year, as outlined further back in this thread.
If I remove all of the carpets/sound deadening material, and really push the clutch hard to the bare floor, I can just get the operating arm to make contact with the Flywheel/Clutch assembly.
It sounds really 'orrible!!!



1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
1991 Nissan Figaro

Edited by - andydeans3 on 21 Sep 2021 22:46:52
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greg124
V4 Fan

United Kingdom
173 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2021 :  16:53:29 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I found the problem. Thanks Andy. Pulling back the rubber boot revealed that the end of the piston was protruding from the cylinder. The circlip was missing. I imagine the remnants must be languishing in the bottom of the bell housing.
As there was a rebuild kit among the box of spares that came with the car, I thought it a good opportunity to replace the seal as well. With the addition of a washer behind the slave cylinder to act as a shim, it all seems to work perfectly now.

Having said that, the position of the assembly at rest is not the same as on my 95. The front end of the rod is significantly vertically lower, such that the rod does not travel along the same line as the piston. I will look into this further when I have the engine out to cure the 'constant loss lubrication system'.
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