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 timing gears, metal or hybrid?
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green96v4
V4 Mad

Canada
581 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2021 :  13:18:56 Show Profile Reply with Quote
so at a bit of a cross roads with my car, I've never been fully confident with the fibre timing gears (I know there's a lot of people who say they're fine and should never give you any problems, but...)



a Ford engine specialist in Essex is telling me the metal gears are way too noisy and I'll regret fitting them (image borrowed from MotoMobil) and are recommending the "hybrid" gear design as the material is much harder than the original fibre (which they've also point out is now 50 years old)




A far away dream is the possibility of fitting a/c, summers in Ontario are pretty toasty (often in the +30C range) there was a dealer fit a/c in North America and they occasionally come up for sale, or figuring out a Vintage Air set up might be a cool winter project

So question for anyone with a full metal gear set - are they noisy? would the hybrid set be up to the load that a/c would put on it - prices are about the same, so it's more about the balance between refinement and longevity

SAAB96L
V4 Beginner

United Kingdom
92 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2021 :  13:35:55 Show Profile Reply with Quote
A timely thread, as I have been looking at different gear sets.

Can I confirm that the steel gears are in the top photo and and the hybrid is the lower photo. Out of interest, what is the make of up of the hybrid gear wheels please ??

Is the Ford specialist Burton, by any chance ??

Thank you.

Richard.
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green96v4
V4 Mad

Canada
581 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2021 :  13:52:35 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Specialised Engines are the company, in Gray, Essex

Ian Melville has said the hybrid (bottom photo) are a much harder composite than the original fibre, I'm not sure what they are made of exactly - he also stated they had an engine in with full metal gear set that the owner though had something wrong, they immediately identified it was the metal gear making so much noise and pulled them out, so he's not a fan!
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SAAB96L
V4 Beginner

United Kingdom
92 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2021 :  14:15:44 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Okay, good to know.

Thank you.

Richard.
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
3326 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2021 :  14:32:09 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I'm a big fan of fibre timing gears for road engines, they're much quieter than steel ones indeed and they make a lot of sense from an engineering point of view as well. If the balance shaft bearings go or the engine gets jammed for one reason or another, the worst that can happen is a gear stripping.

Not sure what the point of the "hybrid" gears is, replaceable gear ring? I have a few sets of used OEM Ford "hybrid" ones, but they have the gear moulded onto the cast iron base. I'm pretty sure you can still get timing gear sets from Ford.

I wouldn't bother with an ancient Saab AC, maybe just the outlet that mounts under the dashbut not the cast iron compressor etc. Vintage Air is the way forward I'd say, they seem to do quality stuff.



www.saabv4.com
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green96v4
V4 Mad

Canada
581 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2021 :  18:16:33 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Ian at Specialised Engines says the fibre component is much stronger than the original gears
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UK_Sub
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2304 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2021 :  18:20:01 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Out of interest, what are the costs for metal/hybrid gear sets?

Also, if you go for Vintage Air, can you let us know which kit you used (or perhaps part no.s if it's not a kit)? Just asking as it gets pretty warm in the pickup cab!
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green96v4
V4 Mad

Canada
581 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2021 :  19:31:34 Show Profile Reply with Quote
ahem....not cheap (like 300)

and yes, will do on the Vintage Air (although that maybe a couple of years off after I've paid for this round of upgrades, gearbox has gone off to South Carolina for Larry Lautenslager to look at/rebuild - the saga continues!!!)

I may have to go for something generic with them as they have lots of kits for domestic Chevys and all that muscle nonsense!!
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Borstlap
V4 Fanatic

Norway
299 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2021 :  20:16:01 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I read that when dealers in the US installed airco's metal gears were used. I can imagine that an additional airco pump is too much stress on fiber gears. In order to reduce noise you could always decide not to chance the cam shaft gear.

Alex
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Borstlap
V4 Fanatic

Norway
299 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2021 :  20:18:02 Show Profile Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Borstlap
I read that when dealers in the US installed airco's metal gears were used. I can imagine that an additional airco pump is too much stress on fiber gears. In order to reduce noise you could always decide not to chance the cam shaft gear. Price for metal gears and the hybrid version is about the same.

Alex

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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
3326 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2021 :  21:43:57 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Balance shaft gears are always "hybrids", admittedly the OEM ones are not the heavy duty type. Using an uprated balance shaft gear may make sense if you install aircon. I don't really see the point of an uprated cam shaft gear though, unless you're using really stiff valve springs maybe.

www.saabv4.com
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green96v4
V4 Mad

Canada
581 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2021 :  22:15:42 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Isnt the motomobil image balance shaft gear all metal?
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
3326 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2021 :  22:42:10 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Yes, sorry I meant OEM balance shaft gears are always hybrids.



www.saabv4.com
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TTruckie
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
315 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2021 :  22:47:16 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I've got a set of Malbrads metal gear and don't find them noisy.
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Woody
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2527 Posts

Posted - 13 Apr 2021 :  13:26:28 Show Profile Reply with Quote
When I put my rally engine back together I had the original fibre gears which are 1968, but I got a steel balance shaft gear from Clive Hodgson, which had been sourced through Richard and Les Simpson. It does have a bit of whine but it is currently drowned out by the fan bearing.
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green96v4
V4 Mad

Canada
581 Posts

Posted - 13 Apr 2021 :  15:24:10 Show Profile Reply with Quote
thanks Woody, I got a quieter fan bearing off Melle as mine was noisy too - I think I'm actually talking myself into the hybrids and to forego the a/c (which I feel is a bunch of engineering to undo what I'm doing now anyway, most of the set ups I've seen have a 2nd rad and electric fans)
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