| Author |  Topic  |
Dirtbiker
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
1061 Posts |  Posted - 04 Jul 2021 : 20:25:28  
| Hi,
My rebuilt engine for the 96 is ready and I’m planning on fitting it while giving the engine bay a tidy up later this year.
I plan to order a new clutch kit and wondered what people’s thoughts were. Currently leaning towards the Malbrad diaphragm kit. The benefit of this appears to be that everything just bolts together with no modification needed. What I am short is f is time so would like to avoid experiments and lots of trips to the machine shop although this is not out of the question.
Also, my flywheel has been lightened so it would be good if the new clutch just bolted straight up to that.
I also plan to follow in the footsteps of some excellent projects on here and hope yo fit efi at a later date. I may rethink the flywheel and have it machined to act as a trigger.
Anyway, thanks in advance for clutch advice! |
Edited by - Dirtbiker on 04 Jul 2021 22:17:37 |
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Jimmys old Saab
V4 Beginner
United Kingdom
98 Posts | Posted - 07 Jul 2021 : 23:08:10
| I would definately go for that Malbrad diaphragm kit. The Sachs kit I fitted works but is not as progressive as I'd like and needed the slave cylinder packing out with washers. I wish I had known I could get the diaphragm kit when I fitted my clutch.
Saab 96 1971
Datsun 120y coupe 1975
Saab 9000 CSE turbo 1993
VW T5 LWB 2012
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melle
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
3833 Posts | Posted - 08 Jul 2021 : 08:27:21
| quote:
Originally posted by Jimmys old Saab
and needed the slave cylinder packing out with washers.
You would probably still have this issue with a diaphragm clutch.
www.saabv4.com | |
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AnttiK
V4 Fan
Finland
103 Posts | Posted - 08 Jul 2021 : 09:32:40
| 1 month ago when I installed the engine back with updated flywheel clutch slipped at 110 km/h when accelerating with full throttle. It is not slipping anymore and probably I just did not clean the surfaces properly. I did use the brake cleaner, but probably just not enough.
In future when (if ) I get the TG245 modern camshaft from Tgmotor and install it there should be more low end torque. Also I am a bit tired playing with STD clutch pressure plate structure, which is making noise when clutch pedal is pressed. I do not want to invest to new clutch assembly, because it still might not be able to handle the higher engine torque anyway.
Long term plan is to install the diaphragm clutch and I have not yet found the specific instructions how to do it. I think VW beetle clutch pressure plate could be applied in two ways: Modifying the flywheel to fit the STD VW pressure plate or modifying the VW pressure plate to fit the STD flywheel. I think Malbrad has just modified the VW pressure plate and that would be a good solution. 200mm VW pressure plate is quite cheap and I would think it would not be too hard to modify it.
I think the 190mm STD clutch plate is fine if it is compatible with 200mm VW pressure plate. Probably VW Diaphragm clutch has more spring force and it should be enough for my purposes.
This one was quite good example of the diaphragm clutch, but pictures are not visible any more:
http://www.saab-v4.co.uk/speedball/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2384&SearchTerms=diaphragm
They have also installed Lada Niva clutch pressure plates and Saab 99 or 9000 pressure plates here in Finland, but not specific details available on those. | |
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melle
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
3833 Posts | Posted - 08 Jul 2021 : 09:55:36
| quote:
Originally posted by AnttiK
Also I am a bit tired playing with STD clutch pressure plate structure, which is making noise when clutch pedal is pressed.
You'll perhaps also have this issue with a diaphragm clutch. 
The root of this problem, as well as Jimmy's, is most likely a worn clutch release arm, not the pressure plate.
Apart from the fact that new standard Sachs clutches have been riveted the wrong way around for well over a decade now, standard clutches in general are really not as bad as many lead you to believe. The main problem is that everything else is half a century old and completely worn out; eliminate all the play and misalignment and your car will have a perfectly acceptable clutch (I'm talking road cars here, heavily souped-up motors are a different story of course).
www.saabv4.com | |
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AnttiK
V4 Fan
Finland
103 Posts | Posted - 08 Jul 2021 : 10:41:08
| Yes, clutch release arm holes for bearing are worn, but not much. Another potential issue is the metal plate with the clutch pressure plate, which contacts the bearing when clutch is released. I can see from the engine side of the plate that pressure plate levers have engraved grooves to it and that might make the noise when plate is unstable/uneven.
The noise actually started when new clutch plate was installed and old pressure plate was machined. I think they mixed the pressure plate lever original positions and the plate which contacts the bearing was uneven. Then I changed to another used pressure plate assembly and much less noise, but still some. | |
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melle
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
3833 Posts | Posted - 08 Jul 2021 : 12:05:17
| What type of noise? Rattling? if so, it's most likely the release arm touching the pressure plate, which is caused by 1) wear of the release bearing holes in the arm and/ or 2) an incorrectly installed pressure plate.
1) Leverage explains that even a small amount of wear in the holes translates into a fair bit of extra travel for the end of the arm with the pin that is actuated by the slave cylinder. This is how the arm can touch the pressure plate, and why some need to shim the slave to get enough travel.
2) Pressure plates often need shims (usually 0.1–0.3mm) to make sure the release plate is (at least) flush with the clutch cover. I normally install them so that the release plate sits about 1mm proud.
What machining did you do to your old clutch?
www.saabv4.com | |
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AnttiK
V4 Fan
Finland
103 Posts | Posted - 08 Jul 2021 : 12:30:15
| I would say it is a kind of grinding noise, but the noise level is quite low at the moment, so it is not an issue. There was more noise right after the engine installation, but now the situation is clearly better.
Release plate sits close to the 1mm proud to clutch "chassis", so it is quite close where it should be and I think the arm does not touch to pressure plate.
The old pressure plate friction plane was machined together with flywheel in machine shop. It did not cost much, but it looks like it was not success. | |
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Dirtbiker
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
1061 Posts | Posted - 08 Jul 2021 : 15:23:37
| Thanks for the input so far.
Just to clarify the engine is 1815cc with big valve heads but it is a road car and I wouldn’t describe it as heavily souped up so maybe standard will be ok?
Also, I have a Beetle engine in the garage that I’m sure has a clutch on it. I’m going to have a look and a measure of that.
I have a feeling the Malbrad kit is based on some kind of Golf pressure plate…
My main problem right now is too busy/too many projects which is self inflicted but a quick easy solution would be good!
I will make sure everything (clutch fork, hydraulics) is in tip top condition.
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melle
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
3833 Posts | Posted - 08 Jul 2021 : 15:43:25
| Just to add: I have no doubt a diaphragm clutch will be an improvement over the standard one.
www.saabv4.com | |
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Derek
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2191 Posts | Posted - 09 Jul 2021 : 13:57:08
| | I don't know what VW pieces Malbrad uses but from historical memory, parts from the T1 Transporter/Combi was used. Flywheel needs to be machined to deepen the clearance. 4mm? I guess this could be considered as lightening, not what you want for low end torque for your hill climbs. It would be useful to know the weight of the Malbrad flywheel if it is modified. | |
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Iain G
V4 Fan
United Kingdom
159 Posts | Posted - 09 Jul 2021 : 19:04:41
| I have a couple of used but good clutch options I would sell.
PM me if you like.
Iain G | |
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Dirtbiker
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
1061 Posts | Posted - 09 Jul 2021 : 19:36:02
| Hi Iain,
Tried to send a pm but not sure it worked.
You can email me on garethdthomas500 at gmail dot com
Thanks | |
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ratty
V4 Fanatic
United Kingdom
340 Posts | Posted - 19 Jul 2021 : 16:06:51
| Both Karl and I have diaphragm clutches they are VW beetle 1200cc units bought on Ebay. They are excellent, and a lot stronger just what we need for trialling. There is quite a bit on this forum about machining/fitting a diaphragm clutch. Gareth if you want more info let me know. There are a couple of pitfalls to be avoided if poss.!!
nigel martin-oakley | |
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Dirtbiker
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
1061 Posts | Posted - 19 Jul 2021 : 19:47:26
| Thanks Nigel,
I will definitely give you a shout when I have bits in front of me.
I have a used clutch kit on the way with no release bearing and I also have a 1200 beetle engine in the garage that could prove useful.
I need to collect the engine from North Wales so at this stage just getting bits together.
Planning on swapping the engine and tidying up the engine bay this winter.
Cheers | |
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Woody
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2764 Posts | Posted - 26 Jul 2021 : 19:06:33
| | Ratty, I am sure members would like to see an article on your VW diaphragm clutch installation which Alec could add into the articles tab. | |
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| Topic | |
Clutch Options
